Tolkein suggests the notion of Faerie begins with fantasy. He states "...An essential power of Faeire is thus the power of making immediately effective by the will the visions of 'Fantasy'..." So saying that the strength behind these types of stories is actually the aspects of fantasy aesthetic used to create them.
5. Burn (2005) suggests that Harry Potter is indeed a puzzle pieced together by aspects of "folktale and children's literature." Its creatures and characters are those seen through history. He also suggests that the 'structures' of the stories "are influenced, above all, by the images and practices of video games." He cites it's the "puzzle-solving and game survival that characterise the books."
7. I feel that the religious right in the US condemns fantasy, especially Harry Potter, because fundamentalist Christians believe that "fantasy equals deceit, that fantasy and story-telling 'will lead to lying and other deceitful behaviour.'"(Cockrell, 2004, p.218). I guess this relates back to the biblical 10 Commandments which mentions something about not metioning falshoods or something similar. They also believe that they must protect their children from evil forces in the fantasy world. Looking at the fantasy story The Wizard of Earthsea, I imagine fundamentalist Christians would have difficulty with Ged and the other wizards dealing with spirits and the occult.
A 'reformed witch' as cited in Cockrell (2004) stated on a Harry Potter related website that 'these books are orientational and instructional manuals of witchcraft woven into the format of entertainment'.(Cockrell, 2004, p.21). Therefore she warns that exposure to the Harry Potter books could encourage readers to dabble in the occult. Later Cockrell (2004) cites the website Cuttingedge.org that states scripture forbids the reading of satanic material like HP and continues "Harry Potter books are leading the way in conditioning young kids for the Antichrist and for taking the Mark of the Beast."
I feel the major problem for them with HP is that JK Rowling has set the HP books in contempory England as opposed to some magical 'other world'. Tolkien by contrast centred his 'worlds' in places independent of our own, thus emphasising the distinction between what is possible/impossible, and which Rowling by virtue of setting, has not done so clearly. Fundamentalist Christians believe that witchcraft is out there in society unseen but 'ready to swallow up the hapless child who can be turned towards its seductive allure."(Cockrell, 2004, p.219). Parents find it increasingly impossible to insulate children from unwanted influences or vet meterial from them, because 'popular culture is everywhere: on television, at the mall, in magazines ..."(p.219).
Burn observes that these days it is hard to define whether it is "The games influencing books or the other way around." So it is safe to say that the relationship between the two is strong. Fantasy creates ideas for the basis of the video games narrative and the video games help the advancement of structure of the fantasy's narrative. They each become each others skeleton and extensions of the other using their different strengths. Each contain problem solving of some sort, magical creatures, quests and other worlds in which the character adapts to and must learn to survive in. With Harry Potter, Burn states can be clearly seen through one example "the arcade-like Quidditch game."
For Q.1, there seems no very straightforward and a full definition about what fantasy is. However, I can tell that there are a few aspects of what a fatasy is from Tolkien's article. 1. Tolkien thinks Fantasy is a higher form of Art and Art is Sub-creation of humankind.(textbook, p.186). Further more, he states that fantasy may be mor sub-creative than other forms of art.(p.187)
2. Fantasy, Tolkien regards that is also a natural human activity.(p.187)
I agree with renabrab comments on Q7. With a heightened sense of realism in fantasy today and the overwhelming exposure of it in popular culture it is hard for readers/veiwers to not get lost in. This could influence real life for some but i wouldn't go as far as to condemn it altogether. I suppose another reason they do this is because the aspects of fantasy based on biblical information could lead to outrageous interpretations of original biblical text, contradicting religious beliefs that some hold on to very strongly.
8. "However, a great deal of modern children's literature IS fantasy, and it is primarily Harry who is the lightening rod for these fears..." Basically Cockerall speaks out that Fantasy literature is everywhere and is part of what intrigues children who read children's literature and in some cases can be suggested to be the basis of children stories. She then uses Potter as an example of this because it was created yes for both adults and children but mostly for children, in fact it has become somewhat of a necessity to young people. Having as bigger exposure as this particular story has makes it more of a threat.
3. I agree with Minnie that Tolkien's notion of the faery story is linked to the fantasy genre and I think the link is fairly close. Tolkien (1964) states 'Even fairy-stories as a whole have three faces: the Mystical towards the Supernatural; the Magical towards Nature; and the Mirror of scorn and pity towards Man. The essential face of Faerie is the middle one, the Magical" (p.176). In The Wizard of Earthsea, magic is a key element. The book also featured many references to nature, both flora and fauna and the weather,sea, etc, highlighting the link between the two genres.
4. Some of the very basic links between A Wizard of Earthsea and Harry Potter are: Ged and Harry both have scarred faces. Ged goes to Wizard school to live, and Harry goes to a boarding school. Aunts feature in both stories and Harry suffers maltreatment like Ged who is maltreated by his father. Also the scene in A Wizard of Earthsea when Ged flies as a hawk to Ogion compares to the movie scene where Harry flies through the air. These are just a few quick ones I can think off.
I agree with Renabrab’s and Minnie’s comments on Q7. I’d like to add my thought after reading Cockrell’s article. One of the reasons why fantasy, especially Harry Potter, is condemned by some people is its popularity (Cockrell, 2004). It seems like Harry Potter cast a spell on the world as someone said (can’t remember who). As Cockrell claims, Harry Potter is everywhere. Children grow up with Harry Potter nowadays. I feel uneasy about my kids read HP again and again over the years. Furthermore the newness and unfamiliarity of this popular culture/genre add more anxiety. I think the fear many people experience is the influence, though do not know what exactly it is, fantasy/HP books have on kids.
I am not the biggest fan of Harry Potter but I have to disagree with the negative commotions caused by the series.
Kids will be able to recognize the difference between reality and fantasy so people should quit being overly worry about them getting involve with 'witch-craft'.
Also, Harry Potter makes reading popular again. I mean, how often do you see kids queuing outside bookshops long before the shops are open other than launching date of Harry Potter? It is incredible HP is able to attract so many children-reader despite being we are in the era of video games and internet today.
It is absolutely ridiculous and unnecessary to censor a harmless book with magical themes, especially one that has made reading popular again.
(i know im not from your group, but i thought i'll just give my 2 cents, dont mind me. :)
Q3. I think Tolkien’s notion of the ‘faery story’ is linked to fantasy genre. I have noticed two similarities between fantasy genre and fairy tales from the reading. According to Tolkien (1998), fairy stories are ‘stories about Fairy, that is Faërie, the realm or state in which fairies have their being. Faërie contains not only fairies, witches but also other things such as the sea, the sun, the sky and all things that are in it; trees, bird, mortal men etc (p. 16).” I think this definition is related to fantasy in terms of world-building (Horricks, 2004). I understand Faërie is the world created by the writer or story-teller.
Tolkien adds that this world, Faërie, should be presented as ‘true’ not as a dream or an illusion. Fantasy also demands us to believe the impossibilities, violation of natural law, are in fact true (Attebery, 1980).
Hi Pear Jin - nice to have your comments. Q.7 I agree with Minnie, Pear Jin and Harim on their comments. Firstly, I agree that we shouldn't condemn Harry Potter books/films,etc. It is great to see children excited about reading, as Pear Jin said. However, I also agree with Harim, that as a parent you do worry about what things, influences, etc your kids are exposed to. To be a parent is to worry! I'm not up to speed with what phsychological surveys have been done on kids to determine whether they can make the distinction between reality and fantasy but I know that some have been done looking at film and tv. I seem to recall that some children up to about eight years old may have difficulty here, but reiterate that I'm going only from memory and that figure may be inaccurate. My experience is that kids are fairly good at determining the two, but there are always exceptions and different reactions between people and some kids are very easily frightened.
I think the last paragraph of Cockrell's (2004) text is interesting when looking at the religious right's condemnation versus the more liberal Christians acceptance of HP. She states that the magic in HP: "lacks a god or a devil at the heart of it, another dangerous idea. At the heart instead lies mystery, which many theologians of the more experimental stripe tell us is God. For this reason, liberal theologians have no trouble with Harry." Two very different views!
Q6 There have been many computer and console games either based on or inspired by fantasy novels. The best example of this is perhaps the ‘Dragonlance’ franchise, developed from a simple Trilogy to an entire world of board games and online computer games, containing popular titles such as ‘Dungeons and Dragons’, ‘Baldur’s Gate’, ‘Icewind Dale’ and ‘Neverwinter Nights’. Other examples of games based on fantasy novels can be seen in the Harry Potter and The Lord of the Rings series, which have been developed into more than 10 recent PC titles. Due to the popularity of fantasy games, this genre of gaming has been given an exclusive name - RPG, which stands for Role Playing Game, since the player usually assumes the role of a character, who then takes part in completing quests based on the story lines of the novel. Recently the RPG genre has been developed into an even more popular class of PC games known as MMO RPG, standing for Massive Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game. The players basically log onto a paid online account and interact with other players on the Internet to complete quests outlined by the storyline. The most famous game belonging to this genre is World of Warcraft, which commands over 9 million players worldwide.
Q7. I would understand what Renabrab and Harim concerned about possible influence of Harry Potter to your children. As Crockrell (2004) said, Harry lives in contemporary world in England, rather than in the imaginary other world, like Tolkien’s Middle Earth (p.218). Thus, there have been many concerns about HP books which may stimulate kids to oppose against their parents, asking their values and assuming power for themselves 「p. 219」. This may be true. Our kids would imagine or believe themselves that they can be another Harry Potter, in any worst case. As I heard long time ago, Daniel Redcliff (who plays Harry Potter role) hallucinated that he was a real Harry Potter when he finished the first movie. So he had to be sent to the hospital for the mental treatment. When Daniel Redcliff took this role for the first time, I think he was too young, so he could be confused into thinking that he could practice magic. I’m not sure whether this was true, because I didn’t actually read it myself; I know this would be the worst case or over-anxiety, but I think this could happen to him as well as to our kids. As Cockrell (2004) stated, it would be increasingly impossible to isolate our kids from those unwanted influences, because popular culture is everywhere in our life.
22 comments:
1. How does Tolkien (1964) define fantasy?
2. Compare and contrast this to the other definitions from last week’s reader?
3. Is Tolkien’s notion of the ‘faery story’ linked to fantasy genre? How closely?
4.What parallels can you find between A Wizard of Earthsea and the Harry Potter franchise?
5.What other influences does Burn (2005) suggest for Harry Potter?
6.How does the fantasy genre relate to modern media such as video games?
7.Why does the religious right in the US condemn fantasy, according to Cockrell (2004)?
8. On what grounds does Cockrell defend fantasy literature, using Harry Potter for exemplification?
hi
Hi
Tolkein suggests the notion of Faerie begins with fantasy. He states "...An essential power of Faeire is thus the power of making immediately effective by the will the visions of 'Fantasy'..." So saying that the strength behind these types of stories is actually the aspects of fantasy aesthetic used to create them.
Hey everyone :)
Sorry that was for Q3.
5. Burn (2005) suggests that Harry Potter is indeed a puzzle pieced together by aspects of "folktale and children's literature." Its creatures and characters are those seen through history.
He also suggests that the 'structures' of the stories "are influenced, above all, by the images and practices of video games." He cites it's the "puzzle-solving and game survival that characterise the books."
7. I feel that the religious right in the US condemns fantasy, especially Harry Potter, because fundamentalist Christians believe that "fantasy equals deceit, that fantasy and story-telling 'will lead to lying and other deceitful behaviour.'"(Cockrell, 2004, p.218). I guess this relates back to the biblical 10 Commandments which mentions something about not metioning falshoods or something similar. They also believe that they must protect their children from evil forces in the fantasy world. Looking at the fantasy story The Wizard of Earthsea, I imagine fundamentalist Christians would have difficulty with Ged and the other wizards dealing with spirits and the occult.
A 'reformed witch' as cited in Cockrell (2004) stated on a Harry Potter related website that 'these books are orientational and instructional manuals of witchcraft woven into the format of entertainment'.(Cockrell, 2004, p.21). Therefore she warns that exposure to the Harry Potter books could encourage readers to dabble in the occult. Later Cockrell (2004) cites the website Cuttingedge.org that states scripture forbids the reading of satanic material like HP and continues "Harry Potter books are leading the way in conditioning young kids for the Antichrist and for taking the Mark of the Beast."
I feel the major problem for them with HP is that JK Rowling has set the HP books in contempory England as opposed to some magical 'other world'. Tolkien by contrast centred his 'worlds' in places independent of our own, thus emphasising the distinction between what is possible/impossible, and which Rowling by virtue of setting, has not done so clearly. Fundamentalist Christians believe that witchcraft is out there in society unseen but 'ready to swallow up the hapless child who can be turned towards its seductive allure."(Cockrell, 2004, p.219). Parents find it increasingly impossible to insulate children from unwanted influences or vet meterial from them, because 'popular culture is everywhere: on television, at the mall, in magazines ..."(p.219).
Burn observes that these days it is hard to define whether it is "The games influencing books or the other way around." So it is safe to say that the relationship between the two is strong. Fantasy creates ideas for the basis of the video games narrative and the video games help the advancement of structure of the fantasy's narrative. They each become each others skeleton and extensions of the other using their different strengths. Each contain problem solving of some sort, magical creatures, quests and other worlds in which the character adapts to and must learn to survive in. With Harry Potter, Burn states can be clearly seen through one example "the arcade-like Quidditch game."
For Q.1, there seems no very straightforward and a full definition about what fantasy is. However, I can tell that there are a few aspects of what a fatasy is from Tolkien's article.
1. Tolkien thinks Fantasy is a higher form of Art and Art is Sub-creation of humankind.(textbook, p.186). Further more, he states that fantasy may be mor sub-creative than other forms of art.(p.187)
2. Fantasy, Tolkien regards that is also a natural human activity.(p.187)
I agree with renabrab comments on Q7. With a heightened sense of realism in fantasy today and the overwhelming exposure of it in popular culture it is hard for readers/veiwers to not get lost in. This could influence real life for some but i wouldn't go as far as to condemn it altogether. I suppose another reason they do this is because the aspects of fantasy based on biblical information could lead to outrageous interpretations of original biblical text, contradicting religious beliefs that some hold on to very strongly.
8. "However, a great deal of modern children's literature IS fantasy, and it is primarily Harry who is the lightening rod for these fears..." Basically Cockerall speaks out that Fantasy literature is everywhere and is part of what intrigues children who read children's literature and in some cases can be suggested to be the basis of children stories. She then uses Potter as an example of this because it was created yes for both adults and children but mostly for children, in fact it has become somewhat of a necessity to young people. Having as bigger exposure as this particular story has makes it more of a threat.
3. I agree with Minnie that Tolkien's notion of the faery story is linked to the fantasy genre and I think the link is fairly close. Tolkien (1964) states 'Even fairy-stories as a whole have three faces: the Mystical towards the Supernatural; the Magical towards Nature; and the Mirror of scorn and pity towards Man. The essential face of Faerie is the middle one, the Magical" (p.176). In The Wizard of Earthsea, magic is a key element. The book also featured many references to nature, both flora and fauna and the weather,sea, etc, highlighting the link between the two genres.
4. Some of the very basic links between A Wizard of Earthsea and Harry Potter are: Ged and Harry both have scarred faces. Ged goes to Wizard school to live, and Harry goes to a boarding school. Aunts feature in both stories and Harry suffers maltreatment like Ged who is maltreated by his father. Also the scene in A Wizard of Earthsea when Ged flies as a hawk to Ogion compares to the movie scene where Harry flies through the air. These are just a few quick ones I can think off.
I agree with Renabrab’s and Minnie’s comments on Q7.
I’d like to add my thought after reading Cockrell’s article. One of the reasons why fantasy, especially Harry Potter, is condemned by some people is its popularity (Cockrell, 2004). It seems like Harry Potter cast a spell on the world as someone said (can’t remember who). As Cockrell claims, Harry Potter is everywhere. Children grow up with Harry Potter nowadays. I feel uneasy about my kids read HP again and again over the years. Furthermore the newness and unfamiliarity of this popular culture/genre add more anxiety. I think the fear many people experience is the influence, though do not know what exactly it is, fantasy/HP books have on kids.
Q.7,
I am not the biggest fan of Harry Potter but I have to disagree with the negative commotions caused by the series.
Kids will be able to recognize the difference between reality and fantasy so people should quit being overly worry about them getting involve with 'witch-craft'.
Also, Harry Potter makes reading popular again. I mean, how often do you see kids queuing outside bookshops long before the shops are open other than launching date of Harry Potter? It is incredible HP is able to attract so many children-reader despite being we are in the era of video games and internet today.
It is absolutely ridiculous and unnecessary to censor a harmless book with magical themes, especially one that has made reading popular again.
(i know im not from your group, but i thought i'll just give my 2 cents, dont mind me. :)
Q3. I think Tolkien’s notion of the ‘faery story’ is linked to fantasy genre.
I have noticed two similarities between fantasy genre and fairy tales from the reading. According to Tolkien (1998), fairy stories are ‘stories about Fairy, that is Faërie, the realm or state in which fairies have their being. Faërie contains not only fairies, witches but also other things such as the sea, the sun, the sky and all things that are in it; trees, bird, mortal men etc (p. 16).” I think this definition is related to fantasy in terms of world-building (Horricks, 2004). I understand Faërie is the world created by the writer or story-teller.
Tolkien adds that this world, Faërie, should be presented as ‘true’ not as a dream or an illusion. Fantasy also demands us to believe the impossibilities, violation of natural law, are in fact true (Attebery, 1980).
Hi Pear Jin - nice to have your comments.
Q.7 I agree with Minnie, Pear Jin and Harim on their comments. Firstly, I agree that we shouldn't condemn Harry Potter books/films,etc. It is great to see children excited about reading, as Pear Jin said. However, I also agree with Harim, that as a parent you do worry about what things, influences, etc your kids are exposed to. To be a parent is to worry! I'm not up to speed with what phsychological surveys have been done on kids to determine whether they can make the distinction between reality and fantasy but I know that some have been done looking at film and tv. I seem to recall that some children up to about eight years old may have difficulty here, but reiterate that I'm going only from memory and that figure may be inaccurate. My experience is that kids are fairly good at determining the two, but there are always exceptions and different reactions between people and some kids are very easily frightened.
I think the last paragraph of Cockrell's (2004) text is interesting when looking at the religious right's condemnation versus the more liberal Christians acceptance of HP. She states that the magic in HP: "lacks a god or a devil at the heart of it, another dangerous idea. At the heart instead lies mystery, which many theologians of the more experimental stripe tell us is God. For this reason, liberal theologians have no trouble with Harry." Two very different views!
Q6 There have been many computer and console games either based on or inspired by fantasy novels. The best example of this is perhaps the ‘Dragonlance’ franchise, developed from a simple Trilogy to an entire world of board games and online computer games, containing popular titles such as ‘Dungeons and Dragons’, ‘Baldur’s Gate’, ‘Icewind Dale’ and ‘Neverwinter Nights’. Other examples of games based on fantasy novels can be seen in the Harry Potter and The Lord of the Rings series, which have been developed into more than 10 recent PC titles. Due to the popularity of fantasy games, this genre of gaming has been given an exclusive name - RPG, which stands for Role Playing Game, since the player usually assumes the role of a character, who then takes part in completing quests based on the story lines of the novel. Recently the RPG genre has been developed into an even more popular class of PC games known as MMO RPG, standing for Massive Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game. The players basically log onto a paid online account and interact with other players on the Internet to complete quests outlined by the storyline. The most famous game belonging to this genre is World of Warcraft, which commands over 9 million players worldwide.
Q7. I would understand what Renabrab and Harim concerned about possible influence of Harry Potter to your children. As Crockrell (2004) said, Harry lives in contemporary world in England, rather than in the imaginary other world, like Tolkien’s Middle Earth (p.218).
Thus, there have been many concerns about HP books which may stimulate kids to oppose against their parents, asking their values and assuming power for themselves 「p. 219」. This may be true. Our kids would imagine or believe themselves that they can be another Harry Potter, in any worst case. As I heard long time ago, Daniel Redcliff (who plays Harry Potter role) hallucinated that he was a real Harry Potter when he finished the first movie. So he had to be sent to the hospital for the mental treatment. When Daniel Redcliff took this role for the first time, I think he was too young, so he could be confused into thinking that he could practice magic. I’m not sure whether this was true, because I didn’t actually read it myself; I know this would be the worst case or over-anxiety, but I think this could happen to him as well as to our kids. As Cockrell (2004) stated, it would be increasingly impossible to isolate our kids from those unwanted influences, because popular culture is everywhere in our life.
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